Navigating Late AuDHD Diagnosis (Level-2 Autism + ADHD)

Rebecca is a mental health counsellor in Australia. Diagnosed at 47 — with level-two autism and ADHD combined type — she shares her story of self-recognition, complex emotions around diagnosis, and the challenges of navigating neurodivergence in both personal and professional life.

Rebecca reflects on masking, internalized ableism, and how people-pleasing tendencies developed as survival strategies. The conversation also explores her work as a counsellor and how parenting neurodivergent children has shaped her own self-understanding.

Topics explored include:

• The slow unmasking process
• How late autism diagnosis reframes childhood memories and identity
• Parenting with empathy
• Avoiding the pitfalls of compliance culture
• The nuanced relationship between sensitivity, empathy, and strength
• Disbelief from healthcare professionals and the impact of diagnostic invalidation

Watch this episode on YouTube.

Rebecca recommends these resources:

Camouflaging Autistic Traits Questionnaire (CAT-Q)

Embrace Autism website

Is This Autism? — A Guide for Clinicians and Everyone Else by Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland, with Jamell White

The Neurodivergent Woman podcast

All episodes written and produced by Kristen Hovet.

Send in your questions to otherautism@gmail.com

Buy me a coffee!

Book a life-coaching session with me!

The views, opinions, and experiences shared by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or production team. The content is intended for informational purposes only and should not be taken as medical or professional advice. Please consult with a qualified healthcare provider before making any decisions related to your health, fitness, or wellness. 

Transcript

Copy

Kristen Hovet (00:00)
Today I'm speaking with Rebecca from Australia. She was diagnosed as level two autistic along with ADHD combined type in adulthood. Before I share our conversation, I'd like to give a heartfelt thank you to Phil for buying me a coffee and Stark for buying me five coffees. Your generosity helps keep this podcast going and growing. 

If you would also like to buy me a coffee, there's a link in the show notes that says Buy me a coffee! And what you're doing is you're donating some money that's approximately the cost of a coffee. So around five bucks, give or take. And with that, please say hello to my guest for today, Rebecca.

Rebecca (01:05)
Hi, my name's Rebecca. I am an AuDHDer. So I was diagnosed autistic level two and ADHD combined type about a year ago. So I was 47 at the time. I guess like many late diagnosed people, my journey started when I was going through the diagnostic process with my son and just recognizing the more I learned about autism and ADHD from psychologists through that process, I started to really identify myself in a lot of the... and a lot of my own traits in that process. So I think that happens for a lot of people from what I've heard. And that's what started my questioning my own neurodivergence.

Kristen Hovet (01:46)
Thank you. I'd love to hear more about your autism diagnosis. What prompted you to get an autism assessment specifically? Like an aha moment when you just knew?

Rebecca (02:00)
Just recognizing the traits of difficulty with eye contact. I've always sort of struggled with that and having all of sudden flashback memories to my mother telling me, you've got to look people in the eye when you talk to them and like that sort of constant prompting as a child.

Probably a lot of sensory things like remembering how much I hate scratchy fabrics, different types of clothes, very particular about smells, textures. I've been told for years I'm a very fussy eater, although I didn't think of it as fussy, it was just I know what I want to eat and that's not it, what I was being offered.

Being very particular about food and especially around meat, textures, things like that. I just sort of thought that was just the way everybody was in some way, or it wasn't that out of the typical realm until I had children. And sort of seeing my children interact with other kids and then hearing the stories, I thought, oh, okay, not everybody eats like that. Not everybody feels that way.

Kristen Hovet (03:09)
So you've shared in an email with me that your diagnosis brought a mix of emotional responses along with lingering self-doubt. Would you be comfortable sharing more about that emotional landscape, both leading up to and after the two diagnoses?

Rebecca (03:27)
Yeah, sure. So in the lead up, I spent a lot of time deep diving into autism. My understanding as it turns out was really poor. And so I spent a lot of time diving into it and spent a lot of time listening to podcasts like yours and many others and really hearing a lot of threads in the stories I was hearing, people sharing their experience, and thinking, oh, that's me. And really sort of... a lot of things were resonating for me. But there was always this lingering, ahh no, I'm probably just being... I'm probably just overthinking it, looking too deeply into it. You know, surely this would have been noticed earlier. And that sort of back and forth went on for about 12, 18 months, going down the rabbit holes of trying to learn what I could. 

I would listen to professionals, psychologists on their podcasts as well, and really trying to figure out, is this me, almost imagining it in a way. Because I sort of felt like I didn't know who I was all of a sudden. It was like I sort of felt like a veil had been lifted, but I couldn't tell what I was looking at really. 

After a lot of back and forth and doing a lot of screeners online and a lot of my own research, I decided I was going to save up and get an official diagnosis because I thought I can't keep doing this. I felt like I was going to go crazy, driving myself sort of into the ground with these sort of musings all the time. I eventually saved up enough and I went through the process. It was quite a long process and, here in Australia, a diagnosis is very expensive. 

Again, I had lot of doubts around, am I wasting my time? Am I wasting my money? Is this a good idea? But I did end up also going through with the diagnosis. And I found the emotions through that... I very exhausted at the end of... I did multiple sort of appointments with the psychologist that diagnosed me and I found it really tiring. It was quite triggering. I was quite surprised at how much it brought up, trying to remember my childhood and remembering different things that I hadn't thought about for a long, long time. And then there's that wait between when you do the assessment and when you get the results back when they write the report.

When the report came back and when I had my appointment for that, my initial reaction was, oh, okay. It was... that was, that was a relief. Okay. I haven't imagined this. This is actually real, what's going on for me. It's not in my head and it's not, me over identifying with other people's experiences because I was bit worried that I was going to do that. But as it turns out, in the almost year since that diagnosis, I realize that's actually a part of my coping strategy almost, or my masking, I think, has been to over identify with people. It's how I can read people and I can assimilate a little bit, depending who I'm talking to.

And I feel like that's become quite a complex masking process that I don't even... I haven't even been aware that I do. So I think that's again where I come up with the impostor side of myself. I don't know who I am because, when I'm by myself, I feel really lost sometimes, but I'm often very happy in my own company to be honest. But yeah, when I'm with other people, I'm always trying to fit into what's going on.

Kristen Hovet (07:04)
I wanted to ask as well about like when it comes to telling other people — your family, your friends, coworkers — what have their responses been like?

Rebecca (07:17)
I've told a few people, I haven't told everybody. Some of the earlier reaction I got from family members was quite interesting because I mentioned to a close family member that I was going for the assessment and they very confidently said to me, oh, you're not autistic. You're probably ADHD, but you're definitely not autistic. And that experience has sort of left me going, oh, okay.

And actually I haven't told that family member the result of my diagnosis and they haven't asked, which I think's quite interesting. I do feel like there's still unfortunately so much stigma, you know, everywhere I imagine, but especially here. My husband understands. I think he was a bit unsure for a while, but I think he's been very accepting. My children have been very accepting, but that's the beauty of my kids. They're growing up in a different era where they just like, yeah, this is me, this is who I am. They don't care. They just tell everybody. 

Professionally, I've told a few close colleagues. I can't remember if I mentioned before, I work as a mental health counsellor in Australia. So it's an interesting job because, when I work with clients, the focus is not me, it's the client. So I don't tend to disclose my own sort of neuro type to people. I do work with a range of neurodiverse clients and I do suspect that they know. And when I work with them, I talk a lot about neurodiversity quite openly. But it's not something that I've disclosed to a lot of people cuz I'm still trying to work it out myself.

Kristen Hovet (08:56)
Could you say more about, I guess, how it's changed your self concept? For myself, when I had my diagnosis, I was like, oh, okay. That makes sense. And also I could have more self-compassion, and just let the burden off a bit. Have you had anything similar?

Rebecca (09:15)
Yes, very much. And thinking about the approach that I've had to myself with the feelings of... you know, I've had relief. There's been an element of grief as to, oh, you know, I'm not who I thought I was, or I wonder if I'd had support earlier, could life have been very different? Because I had different aspirations as a younger... you know, as a young girl.

Lots of different interests, very high aspirations academically, but then struggled a lot in school with focus and memory and things like that. How I cope with it now is I use a very self-compassionate approach. I'm able to look back now at some of the things that my inner critic's been very hard on me about, you know, those moments that I replay in my head from when I was a child or when I said something or did something that was rude or considered inappropriate. I've held a lot of shame for those things, even into my late 40s, I can think back and I feel in my... you know, that shame. 

And then I'm able to go, okay, now I know this about myself, I see where it's come from. And I'm able to go, that's okay, cuz that's just how your brain works. And I didn't mean to be rude, quote unquote, or anything like that. I was just being me and I was very open and very vulnerable as a child. If I was thinking it, I was saying it, and it wasn't always, you know... at the time, thinking I'm just being honest and we're always told to tell the truth as kids.

So I did. And yeah, it got me into some situations. But I'm able to look back now and go, okay, well, that was just how my brain works. It was never vindictive or mean or anything like that.

Kristen Hovet (11:04)
Right. That must've been hard to get to where you are professionally, especially with the challenges that you talked about, some of the challenges with, I guess, executive function, it sounds like. So did you get there by brute force? What was it, do you think, that helped you get there?

Rebecca (11:23)
I did my degree in Bachelor of Applied Social Science and Counselling. I completed that when my oldest child was a baby. I started studying part-time and I did it online, which back when I was younger wouldn't have been an option. I've always had an interest in people and how people work and convinced myself at the time though that, because I'd been 20 years out of high school and I struggled in high school, I wasn't smart enough to do psychology. So I did counselling which is certainly... it was a degree. It required a lot of effort. And how I got it done was just, yeah, white knuckling it, pushing myself. 

I have quite a perfectionistic nature and can be very hypervigilant. It's an ADHD trait to sort of leave things to the last minute. It was nothing for me to leave the assignment until the last few days, but I would have done a lot of research with that focus and that deep dive into literature. And then in the last few days, just bump out an essay and I got it done that way. I don't know if it's a terribly effective way of learning, but it got the job done. It got the marks and I did pretty well at uni, considering, but it was very challenging. I had support from friends who had studied at university level and taught me about referencing and all that stuff.

Kristen Hovet (12:48)
And also, I guess the other question I have about just after the diagnoses, are you starting to look at the people in your life and kind of seeing similar traits and going, hmm, I wonder about them as well?

Rebecca (13:01)
Yes, absolutely. I've got my core family. We're a very neuro-spicy household. I've got two children who've been diagnosed, one autistic, the other one I haven't had assessed as autistic, but he has been diagnosed ADHD. And then I look at my partner sometimes and I think...

When I think about my parents... my father unfortunately died when I was 20. But when I think about how he lived his life and what he was like as a person, I would strongly suspect that he was autistic as well.

Kristen Hovet (13:40)
I also know from our email exchanges that some professionals have doubted or dismissed your diagnoses. How have those moments shaped your confidence in your own new neurodivergent identity?

Rebecca (13:57)
It definitely impacted my belief in myself and in my diagnosis. And there's even been moments where I've looked back on my diagnosis and thought, gosh, could she have been wrong? Is she... I mean, she was an excellent psychologist. She was very thorough. I've got a 33 page report, when I read it, it all makes sense. And yet I saw a psychiatrist who, when I mentioned that I'd... since I'd seen him last, I'd gone through this process and I had been diagnosed as autistic as well as with ADHD. He's like, oh, well that just annoys me because everyone's just going and getting these diagnoses now and it's just not necessary. And it's, you know... and just really negated the experience.

I was shocked actually because he's a psychiatrist and I would have thought that they would be right up there with this... with the research and with the awareness around late diagnosis, especially in women in my age group. But no, unfortunately. 

And I do work in a field where I come across mental health professionals, psychologists, counsellors, social workers. I hear the flippant comments like, oh, but we're all autistic.

Ughhh! It's infuriating because it makes me feel less inclined to share my experience because part of my person is I am quite a people pleaser and I can be quite conflict avoidant. I do feel very strongly about things, but when I feel like I'm speaking with somebody who's perceived as knowing more or being in a higher power position, I don't push back. I just nod and leave and say, right, we won't talk about that again.

When I'm thinking about going to see my own psychiatrist, I think that can be quite dangerous. And that's coming from me who works in their profession. I can only imagine what it's like for people that don't work in the medical field or have an understanding about mental health. 

Kristen Hovet (15:56)
Yeah, for sure. And I think you also mentioned internalized ableism. How do you think that works into the people pleasing aspect as well?

Rebecca (16:06)
Yeah, definitely. And it was the lady that, it was the psychologist that completed my diagnosis that first flagged that in me. She said, oh, that's your internalized ableism. And part of me was like, oh, how dare you. I am not, I'm not like that. But when I looked at what it means, it was more, oh, okay, this is where I'm really hard on myself. That's where it turns up for me.

I should be able to do these things. I should be able to go to school pick up and not want to hide from all the other mums. I should be able to go out and socialize and then not come home and replay all of the conversations in my head, like rewinding the video and pointing out to myself all the points that I made a mistake. I should be able to work as much as my other colleagues. I should be able to not take on the emotional content of what people tell me and have better boundaries. Like that for me is where my ableism comes in. I feel like it's been internalized from growing up in the 80s and 90s, where there was very little understanding of autism and ADHD. It was just a harsh time. I felt like I had to just almost perform in a way.

Kristen Hovet (17:22)
Yeah, I'm sorry you had to go through that. It's something so many of us have had to go through and then facing it now in our 30s, 40s, 50s. It's unreal just how much we've carried.

Internalized ableism, the way that I understand it, it's the unconscious absorption of negative beliefs, stereotypes, and societal messages about neurodivergent people. In this case, about autistic and ADHDers and applying those judgments to yourself.

It can show up after late diagnosis as chronic self doubt, even with these new labels or label, feeling not autistic enough, not ADHD enough. So, not feeling like you deserve those titles. It can also show up as over apologizing for traits that are actually neutral or adaptive or even healthy. It can show up as masking to appear more neurotypical, which we did before diagnosis, but we can continue to do even after diagnosis. And it can also show up as pushing yourself to meet unrealistic standards of productivity, focus, or social performance.

This often comes from years or even decades of being misunderstood, misdiagnosed or improperly diagnosed, or told that your struggles are from personal failings rather than signs of unmet needs or trauma or neurological differences. Over time, you can start to believe these messages very, very deeply and question your own worth. You can question your diagnosis, as I mentioned, your set of diagnoses or even your right to seek accommodations or support, which is really sad. You go through this whole process — paying for assessment, or just, you know, the burden of having to go through that process. 

Maybe you receive that diagnosis, that confirmation of the things you thought you saw in yourself. And even then it's a process of coming to terms with, do I deserve this label? Do I deserve this knowledge of myself? Do I deserve the accommodations that can come with it? And it's just a really interesting hurdle to cross after diagnosis. And I think it's something that maybe we don't expect. We expect maybe things to get easier after diagnosis or after the assessment process, cuz at least we know one way or the other. But then there are all these new challenges and one of them is continuing to contend with internalized ableism.

To shift gears a bit, I know that you came into this process while you were advocating for your son in his own journey. What did it feel like to start seeing parts of yourself reflected in him that you're realizing might be different and have labels that could help everyone along and potentially with accommodations? I guess especially the parts that had gone unseen or unsupported in your own life.

Rebecca (20:34)
Yeah, it's very... it's interesting cuz, when I was saying before it's hard to advocate for myself. Infuriatingly, I still find it that way at 48. But advocating for my children is no problem. I will, you know, the mama bear comes out. 

I remember seeing my son when he was three or four, playing at the park with some of the kids from his daycare and watching the way he was interacting with these kids. And I was thinking, he's really on the outside of the circle. He was never the lead. He was never really in it. He was just sort of following everybody around and he would communicate by talking at people and not taking a breath. And he was very, very talkative, very, very chatty. And that's what I remember being like as a child.

You know, everyone would joke, you know, Rebecca could talk under wet cement. Rebecca could talk anyone's ear off. And my son was very much like that. But I was watching him and thinking, he's talking, but he's not communicating. He's just talking at people. And I mentioned it to a few people, you know, in the childcare, carers and everyone was like, oh that's, you know, he's fine. He's, you know, there's not a problem, nothing to worry about. But there was something in the back of my mind thinking, he's not been able to make connections. He's not really having friendships and enjoying being close to people. 

I haven't been around a lot of children. I'm the youngest in my family. I've not really enjoyed being around kids traditionally. I love my own and a select few and that's it, with children. But I was just watching him thinking, there's something just... he's just a little, you know, he just approaches life differently. And I would tell people, my son marches to the beat of his own drum, you know, I'd pull out all the cliches, you know, he's doing things in his own time. 

And he was late with his milestones, but never so late to the point that any like, child nurse or doctor would say, oh, this could be a sign of autism or anything like that. So that's what led me to sort of really initially start looking at autism. I couldn't even tell you where I first... where the idea first came to me. It was just a tiny little thread and I just followed it right down the rabbit hole.

Kristen Hovet (23:02)
Right. Right. And that's interesting what you said about, you know, you have trouble kind of advocating for yourself but with your children, it's no problem. Right. And that's actually... I have a son as well. And that's similar for sure. But I've started doing this kind of like, I guess it's a mental trick. If I know that I'm not setting boundaries properly or advocating for myself or somehow... like, if I'm doing myself a disservice in some way, I kind of know the effects now.

And I sort of think about it like like, if my son was going through this, how would I respond or what would I do to protect him? And then I try to apply what I come up with to myself. And that's really helped. And it's so simple, but just thinking that way has helped me.

Rebecca (23:49)
Yeah, it's very much of a self compassion approach, a Kristin Neff self compassion, but that's a really good one, especially with focusing on this particular topic around autism and, you know, accommodations. It's really important.

Kristen Hovet (24:04)
Definitely. Oh, I guess bringing it back to accommodations: Is that something you've been able to ask for in your own life?

Rebecca (24:12)
I make the accommodations myself. I've been able to make them myself. At work, it's very hard because I only finished my degree as a counsellor back in 2021. So I've not been practicing a terribly long time. I'm starting to sort of... even with the diagnosis, question how much... how much battery I've got to do this for a career. 

I think that was the other thing that made me sort of initially question autism for myself was the age old stereotypes: no empathy, don't talk, I mean, that's total opposite of me. I identify myself as a hyper empath. I cry in commercials. I cried in the Paw Patrol movie.

I cry... like, I'm highly emotional. And so when I work with clients, and I do work with a high risk population, I find because of my training, I can maintain boundaries with them. But when people are going through a particularly hard time, I do worry for them and I am concerned that I take on the work. How long am I going to be able to do this job for, you know, without burning out? Because I think there's quite a high burnout rate.

The accommodations that work for me have been largely around reducing my workload. I've taken that step back last year cuz I did come quite close to burn... I think I was in burnout. I don't know why I said close to, I was.

And I'm in that place now where I'm sort of starting to reassess what I'm going to be doing professionally. It's more of a trying to work out where I can give back the most to people and get the most back professionally, but without writing myself off in the process. Cuz with two neurodivergent children still in primary school, I've got to keep the majority of myself for them. So it's been... it's a juggle and I know anyone that's listening that's a parent will totally understand that it's a juggle.

Kristen Hovet (26:04)
To go back to your son as well, so you described him as highly verbal, empathic, well-behaved, and talkative — traits that you think delayed his diagnosis. What do you think needs to shift in how clinicians and educators understand autism, especially in kids whose autism doesn't present in the quote unquote standard or expected ways?

Rebecca (26:30)
I think that what would help clinicians — and general humanity, really — is being more curious about the neurodivergent brain because it's so different. It's not just one size fits all in the DSM.

He's very chatty, he's very empathic, he can be a people pleaser. So his presentation, it's more of the what they call the feminine presentation. Autism's tricky because it's an internal experience. For me, it feels very internal.

The people that I have told about my diagnosis, they say, oh, ADHD they get, but I even had another counsellor say to me, oh, I wouldn't have picked that. I wouldn't have picked you as autistic. And I'm like, well... how would you? It's not a visual thing. It's an internal experience. Oftentimes it was dismissed, that's just probably hormonal or it's trauma. 

I do have a trauma history. I think nearly every human being on this planet would have a trauma history to one degree, from one degree to another. And a lot of it was put onto that. That's just depression. Oh, you're just depressed? Or you're just, you know, you're just fussy. You're too sensitive. That's the one that grinds my gears the most.

Kristen Hovet (28:03)
Yeah, that one. And then the, oh, you must not have empathy. It's like, oh oh oh. I'm like you, I have the hyper empathy. So, it's like, no! 

In terms of some of your, like, I guess, favourite elements of being autistic, or even ADHD... we hear so much about how difficult it is with ADHD for the executive function, organizational things, you know. But I also know with ADHD comes thinking outside the box and being very creative. So what are some of your favourite aspects of both?

Rebecca (28:38)
I never really thought I was creative, but I can be quite creative with my writing. I can be creative with clients. I can be creative with thinking of ways that they can help support themselves, outside of the usual tips and tricks or the modality of therapy.

With my autism, I love my special interests and my... things I've loved my whole life, which is Star Wars. Absolutely crazy about Star Wars and have been since I first found out about it.

I've been told I'm quite amusing, quite funny. I even... I did attempt stand up once. The humour can come out. I think that the autistic stereotype of not understanding humour, that's probably not been my experience, but my humour can be quite dark or my humour can be quite dry. And so there's a sarcasm and a wit that comes with that.

I like my brain. I like the way that it thinks. I like that it's different. I don't like the idea... you know, people can call me all sorts of things. I've had a fairly thick skin at times, but the one I don't like, I would never want to be called is dull or boring or anything like that.

Kristen Hovet (29:52)
What messages do you have for people who are considering assessment?

Rebecca (29:58)
I'm really glad that I did it [my autism and ADHD assessments]. I'm very pleased that I did it. I'm somebody though that probably wouldn't have let it go. I don't think that I trusted my own judgment enough. And I think that that's because... and through this assessment it was identified, I've got a very strong capacity for masking and camouflaging. My score was... I have it here actually, cuz I think that... my total score for the CAT-Q was 152. And I think the average CAT-Q score of neurotypical women is 90.

I feel like my masking and my camouflaging happens without my awareness a lot of the time. I describe myself at the moment as somebody who's taken off the armor, I've taken down the walls in many ways. And it has left me quite vulnerable. I do feel like it's left me quite vulnerable because I need to have something there to protect myself from, you know, perceived criticisms and things like that, to not let them bother me, to let them slide away and not take them on. And I think that's far easier said than done. 

So my message would be for anybody that wants to understand themselves better and really wants to understand how they think and how their brain works, I would, you know, I'm very, very glad that for me I did the diagnosis. It's something for me to lean on when I get in those moments, like I mentioned with the psychiatrist, where I start doubting myself and I'm like, well, hang on, no, I've got an official diagnosis here. It's not just in my imagination or I'm not just being... over identifying with people. It is my experience and it helps me sort of stay grounded in that.

I'm really glad that I know this about myself now. It's just a matter... a process of relearning things or... it's reframing it, not relearning it, reframing life with this different lens.

Kristen Hovet (32:17)
And you mentioned masking, which... it's a challenging one for those of us late diagnosed because we're like, wait, I have a masking self and a non masking... like, that's very confusing, I think, for one's own self concept. How much insight do you have there? Are you still building it, like in terms of the unmasked self, the masked self, and what are some of the differences between the two?

Rebecca (32:43)
That's a really good question. I think a lot of the time, being truthful here, I don't know when I'm doing it and when I'm not sometimes. I don't know where the mask ends and I begin. And I think it must have started very, very young. Very young. 

There's moments where I find myself using my humour, like I was talking before about the humour. This is where it probably can be a bit dysfunctional, if I may use that word. I'll use my humour to mask and there's a part of myself watching this — it's gonna get woo-woo. There's a part of myself watching myself do that going, oh, you can stop that now. Why are you doing that? Like you don't need to make everything a joke. Not everything has to be funny. 

Linking it back to my son now, I'm actually watching him start to do the same thing, and he's in year six. He's found that it's a way to connect with people. People will like him if he's funny. And I think that's where it started. That's one of my masks will be making a joke, making a laugh, being a bit of a clown.

A family member recently said to me, ah... cuz I felt more comfortable to just stop doing that, and I've been very open about what's been going on. And my family member said, oh, I just think you're just... you're just not happy anymore. You just seem really flat and you don't feel... seem like yourself. And they've said, oh, we think it's your job. We think it's my work because I work with people who are, you know, perhaps depressed. Maybe I'm feeling down and I'm thinking to myself, no, that's not it. That's just me not being clowny and feeling comfortable to just be not on.

Kristen Hovet (34:39)
For that sense of being on or performing, would you say it has to do with recognizing just how much it takes from you in terms of energy and also just, I guess, not being truthful? So having something that you're doing that's not aligning with how you want to be or how you feel you are.

Rebecca (34:59)
I feel like it's not being authentically who I am and as a counsellor, we're turning up with our clients, you know, in Carl Rogers' approach, you're meant to be genuine and your authentic self. And that was a concept I never really thought I'd have a problem with until I realized, oh, I'm not myself in those rooms. But I am a part of who I am. I, I... when I show up with my clients, I'm probably more real than I am in my personal life in many ways, because they didn't know me before. And I don't have to put on a joke or a laugh with them. I'm genuinely listening and I'm really present when I'm with people [my clients]. So I remember what they tell me and it's quite a different experience. 

I feel like when I get anxious, especially if there's a lot of people around or when we're around our family, I think... I think it's a very common experience for us to go back to how we were or how they've always seen us or feel a pressure to always be that same way. And I don't want to do that with my family anymore. And sometimes I need to because there's just not enough time to explain everything. Yeah, so it's one of those situations where I'm more comfortable being myself as I am.

But sometimes it just, it comes out. And I... like I said, I sort of feel like I'm watching myself perform on a stage. It feels like that. And I'm like, oh, and that is exhausting, as you said. It can be really tiring. I feel like I have almost a hangover after I've spent a lot of time with a big group of people. It's quite tiring.

Kristen Hovet (36:40)
I agree. Yeah. I mean, I'm still... it's been a few years for me and I'm still, um, I guess navigating what the mask is for me. And I know that some of it I embrace, like I've re-embraced it because I feel like some of the mask is a shield — and recognizing the parts that protect me versus the parts that drag me down or are somehow really bad for my mental health.

So that's been a process too of just like, okay, I'm gonna keep this one. This one works in work situations, for example. But letting most of it fall away and finding friends and other people who are okay with it. And if they're not, they're gone. Like just... you know, being able to do that, cuz I was a people pleaser too. So I would have just kind of kept people in my life, but yeah.

Rebecca (37:28)
That's really important and I think I've become... when you talked before about accommodations, like I said, I've put them in myself in that I've just distanced more from people that I've had to mask more with, or that don't accept me for who I am. I've got very little time for that keeping up with the Joneses... sort of got to wear the best things and go to the best places and do all that stuff.

I'm not gonna try and keep up with that. Now I'm really open about this is not me. I'm not a party animal. I used to be, but again, that was a part of the mask and that's a part of my life that I definitely put away. 

I leaned on alcohol very heavily in my early years. I started drinking in my last year of high school at parties like most people did, but I really started drinking quite heavily probably about the age of 20. And that, I recognize now, looking back after my diagnosis, is something that I did to maintain a social life because I couldn't be in loud clubs, pubs, nightclubs, and around a lot of people without having alcohol. It made me feel... I think I was self-medicating. 

Once I had one, I couldn't stop. And so I'd soon escalated to quite heavy drinking. We've got a history of alcoholism in my family. So I recognized probably about the age of 27, 28, that I was drinking too much and took myself off, just quite off the cuff. One night I rang the number for AA and they recommended I go to a meeting. So I did. And I heard my story repeated in those rooms, so I recognized what I was doing. 

I picked it [alcohol] up again, unfortunately, after about a year of sobriety. And that was around about the time my mum was diagnosed also with cancer. So there was a lot going on. There was a lot going on in my life and I... basically, I stopped drinking when I... after I got married and before I wanted to have a baby. I stopped drinking right through pregnancy. And after my son was born, I did start drinking again and went very heavy into it until it was his first birthday. And the night before I had had a lot to drink and I was sick all... all on his first birthday. And that was it. I thought, this is not the parent I want to be. And so I again went back to AA and that was how I addressed it anyway. 

And I haven't now had a drink in 11 years. But that was, you know, I mean, look, I'm rushing through that a bit, but it's more just to highlight that, as I look back now, I recognize why I drank. I wouldn't have thought that I would drink, given my experience with recognizing what alcoholism was from a family member, but now I look back, I think that's how I coped. That's how I coped with masking. Yeah.

Kristen Hovet (40:41)
That makes total sense. I've also heard, there's something about alcohol and I think for autistic brains especially, that sort of... it's almost like it turns off certain neurons. So normally we would have this cacophony of things happening and it almost like helps focus in and socialize. Like, I don't know, that's my experience. And I think... I think there were times in my life when I could have gone... you know, I could have become an alcoholic, but I have mast cell activation disorder. If I drink too much, uh, my symptoms of that are worse. So that keeps me from drinking too much.

But I do notice... it's like I have this maze of tangled neurons in my brain. When I drink, they kind of calm down. And, so yeah, I guess that's kind of like an element of the self-medicating and also it's turning off an element that's specifically autistic, in my experience anyway.

The ADHD element, and I do not have the ADHD element, but I have family members who do. And so I've noticed some of the differences, for example, like they seem to be able to know what to say faster in social settings, from me watching them at least. And maybe that's not how it feels for them going through it. But for me, it feels like they're faster socially, if that makes sense.

Rebecca (42:17)
Yeah. And my experience with ADHD is just... I am fast at replying and the ADHD brings quite an impulsive response for me. And if I combine that with my dark humour or the parts of myself that I, you know, I think maybe people don't need to know about, I'll blurt things out. And the autistic side of me is just going, what are you doing? Shush! It's like an inner war. It can feel like a bit of a tangled mess in there. 

So I can say something very silly, very impulsively. With the alcohol, I guess I was able to go, oh, well, I was drinking. So, that was just why I said it. But really it's not. It just gave a really good excuse for why I might say something, or blurt something out.

One thing you asked before, was one of my strengths, and I sort of thought about it afterwards, was the "too sensitive." I see my "too sensitive" as a big strength. It helps me be the person I am. It helps me be a better mother. It helps me be a better counsellor, a better partner, and a better friend because I'm sensitive, because I can feel intensely about things. I find that is a strength. I don't see it as a weakness.

Kristen Hovet (43:36)
Yeah, thanks for that. And, also, with parenting... I know that some people are, maybe it's because of the media still out there about autistic people, so they're surprised when we have children or have partners. That's hilarious to me. But what do you think are some of the traits of being specifically autistic that make you a really good parent?

Rebecca (44:02)
Hmm, my ability to recognize when my children are uncomfortable and teaching them to trust that, because I didn't trust that. Not so much around the gut instinct, but I can recognize when they're uncomfortable in their clothes. 

My younger child's very particular about food and so I'm not hard on him about it. I recognize that that's just a part of his sensory profile. That's who he is. And it's no point shaming them and doing things when they're not meeting neurotypical standards. I don't tell them they have to make eye contact. I don't tell them that they have to hug people if they don't know them. 

I'm very particular about letting them have their own experience and honouring that. And I think that having a lived experience of that and what it felt like to be at times forced to do things I didn't want to do contributed to me becoming a people pleaser and putting other people's needs ahead of my own. And that's not a criticism of my parents at all because they didn't know better. 

My son's quite open about being autistic and he's cool with it. And I just, I love that. And I think that he's getting that because we've been able to normalize, you know, all brains in our household.

Kristen Hovet (45:22)
That's awesome.

A huge thank you to Rebecca for being my guest on The Other Autism podcast. And that's all I have for you today. Thank you so much for being here. Until next time, bye.